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Samsung Gear Fit 2 Pro by Samsung. Who Viewed This Also Viewed You May Also Like Samsung Gear Fit 2 Pro Review. Legibility is not a concern here even when the Sun beating down harshly.

There is Gorilla Glass 3 on top, and based on our month of usage, it holds very well against daily wear and tear.

Between two side straps is a central module with 1. This gram bracelet is extremely comfortable on the wrist. All in all, the Gear Fit 2 Pro is best-looking fitness tracker in the market as of today.

And it has the best display we have seen on a fitness tracker. The battery life left us wanting for more. On days when we were not that active, it manages to last up to hours.

However, the mileage is a lot lesser when you are active, doing workouts, and are traveling around with the Gear Fit 2 Pro. Want to give me a job, or just curious?

Want my resume and hire me? Or do you want to pull off the same stunt yourself? Now I am curious. So I propose you stop bickering now, and recognize we have a problem with the display of long iupac, on browsers we have to realistically support.

I propose to allow dash space, bracket space etc etc as iupac elements to facilitate readability and auto wrap.

No chance that we all have to upgrade to ff3. Also consider display behavior on other clients, aim for portable text and the least common denominator.

I have a grudge against so many people like you, who are jumping to conclusions immediately and act on a hunch and on a consensus of two, and then they become fidgety and insolent and try to block dissidents.

But first argue the case with me. I propose to squeeze blanks after separators out before searching. The blanks I have inserted for following reasons: The problem occurs if you have "sidebars" enabled on firefox, or in std display mode in IE.

If you use automated search of the iupac name. The "zero width space" is less portable, as it is not ascii character set. Please switch sidebars on in your browser, and observe how the box displays, and other problems.

The you see what I did and why. This are not really style changes. The box really blows up in size on very long names. See screenshots by Carl, above.

Yes that is the problem, and is worse on narrow or variable width display, i. You simply can't read that. This problem shouldn't be solved by attempting to insert breaks manually.

Therea re chembox pages alone. Apart from being more elegant, it's more practical to keep formatting the way they are, and fix the box.

That's just my opinion; does anybody else encounter unreliable names? Discussion at User talk: Is there a wiki standard for this?

I see that icosa is preferred over eicosa, even if Beilstein uses eicosa. Overexcited quick hands please chill out. You see below that the same issues with display recognition of separator characters is pending for the drugbox for quite some time, without an answer.

So I would call your blocking request for my best efforts to make pages display nice a bit quick and insolent, young editor.

Blocking is appropriate for vandalism, not for good faith best efforts. And you have reverted me, before even asking for reasons.

Also I have not seen a response to my part of the discussion. See also here http: Hundreds of articles are affected e.

There is an on-going discussion in the de-WP chemistry project. We got the following e-mail reply from the responsible IT Project Manager:.

So, probably, we should make a request for direct linking to the ESIS database. It seems that there were unknown problems in the past with Wikipedia and ECB de: We are trying to mediate the case and establish a relationship for the future.

The problem with the long name and firefox 2 seems to be fixed: The width of the infobox does not change when I click on "show" to see the chemical name; the table cell grows a horizontal scrollbar instead.

In articles like Violaxanthin , wouldn't it be better to put the wide image in the article text and but a "see text" message in the infobox?

But indeed now the length of the alternate name is the limiting factor, expanding the width of the box. Carl, checked against earlier version and reinserted a beta in beta carotene, which got lost in editing.

Now definitely the alternate name is the limiting factor. The list of the many alternate names is any way separated by manual breaks. So, how much does it make sense to forbid manual breaks in the names in this list?

I hope we don't end up hiding all cells of the drugbox, bringing them up only on a push of a button with a scrollbar.

That "only few users" look at iupac or other "long chemical names" in pidgin is a conjecture. By showing only a window into the name, the scrollbar tool takes on the character of an aid for the blind itself.

Unfortunately an all too popular version of the articles reduces the text body of chem articles to "is toxic, EPA classes, drug schedule, causes dependence and brain rot, if forbidden and bad for the environment and is the result of the pharm industry conspiracy" reflist: Whitespaces inserted after "separator characters" like dash would not change the semantics and therefore not the correctness in fact.

If done appropriately it would look better than the auto wrap on new browsers. I don't talk about inserting spaces behind every separator, but in appropriate places, e.

The main issue is machine readability by search engines and other tools, e. Let me add that the layout problems of chemical names are the same as the layout problems of other high level languages.

Such free layout can be automatically reverted to the original Example statement, for machine processing, by applying lexical processing.

Please address the problem of a list of e. If we hide them all the chembox has no name any more. I would have favored lexical compression before searching with a chems search preprocessor.

Also nothing prevents idiots from tinkering with the names by inserting tetrahydro-fuckto-cuntodole-3,6-prickolate in the mid of the iupac name wherever they want, and I have fixed similar not as bad cases.

Changing the numbers or other items in a plausible way is more insiduous and I have fixed such as well, including misrepresentation of references.

You have to protect this info in some way, violating current policy and excluding Mio people in need of the GED or with a slightly subnormal IQ.

I believe the machine searchability is a wild goose chase, you don't even find the eicosa from Beilstein or Chem abstracts, and you don't find long string even if they are in the article.

Standing in the shoes of an idiot it would be more funny to vandalize the hidden info in an insiduous way. Look at the hits: They are false drops.

It turns out that wiki search looks for a hit containing epoxy, methoxy, methylmorphinan, and one. It doesn't see the 4,5a. It also finds names with these components but other interspersed elements, like hydroxy etc.

Look, look, in particular at the highlighted hit list and see "how" and "what" he matched. Your examples were oversimplistic and wiki search does NOT match on the full search string, but on its parsed down components.

The differences between different layouts are explained by this, they are all associative search false drops. Ok, if thats the consensus after the facts.

Lets see if it is well accepted. Do you guys still think my contributions are mostly rants? Then it increases the size of the chembox, as intended.

So it is truncated on the left. Besides, as you say doesn't hyphenate at hyphens, I am not sure if the dash minus sign of ascii is really and truly a hyphen.

Besides also not confident in unicode portability for that matter, if we talk other clients. If I have sidebars on, it copies the "hide" button, but only the first line of the name.

The name wraps around to a second line between pentanoic and acid, as there is a blank. I have to switch sidebars of to get the full name.

I think this will recur without sidebars if the non-wrapped name is wider than the display window. This is an extra problem.

I begin to suspect that I have to search if I can tweak some macro in the firefox package to see hyphens as wrap points, like in ie6 and FF3.

Maybe thats scriptable, I have to learn. Well, we have solved the problem this far. I can't easily reproduce it under my settings, but the above questions are about it: What happens if you press 'show', can you copy the whole name and what problems do you encounter with it , and can you access the hide button to collapse everything again back to normal.

Can you copy it then, what happens to the display overall? Show and hide works normal. The problem is only if the box doesn't fit in display width in this case due to sidebar, but I guess also if the string is simply wider than display width.

Not tried Then I could do no normal copy, because I could not get to the left end of the line. Besides I got curious what other people have experienced with firefox.

So I did a Google search Firefox word wrap, and got a huge bunch of forums etc. So this kind of incompatibility with IE has been observed by others in different applications too, and has been fixed in ff3.

Of course tinkering with the Chrome folder is not WP solution, where we want maximum compatibility with everything that is out there without tinkering with your computer.

For smiles it should work if the line wrap recognizes parenthesis etc. There is an interesting character for silent hyphen something like shy, not blushing which you can sprinkle into strings and they wrap there.

Don't know if that is portable. Don't know if FF and other browsers recognize that generally. The chem names I found are always edited with minus sign as the dash, compatible with ascii.

At least If you copy from pubchem. And then FF2 doesn't recognize it but IE does. I guess if you do a copy paste from a string with embedded silent hyphens, they don't get copied, because they are nondisplaying.

But again, as I have seen before with zero width blank characters, on some browsers not set to unicode they display as a grey blocks.

So it is also not foolproof. But with ff2 it gives a correct wrap around with no extra spaces displayed. I think it was character I was opposed to it because of the grey block issue, but maybe it is the lesser evil.

I edit a lot of chemical pages, kinda my hobby. But I want to follow the consensus about style. In general, I have been moving almost all of the "other names" for a compound into the ChemBox, except in cases where is a particularly widely used abbreviation.

So in the case of acetone , I changed this:. If other editors object to this approach or have suggestions, please let me know. Whatever we decide, let's write it into the style guide.

Til the next time consensus shifts. Editors should take a look because I made several changes. In any case, this Manual of Style is a consensus driven project and my comments are merely suggestions.

Agree with Smokefoot on scale, and satisfied with changes to styleguide. However, some discretion should be applied with regard to routes - if we are talking about a biomolecule, obviously the biosynthesis should take precedence; on the other hand, for a molecule which is not primarily a biomolecule e.

Whichever the case, lab and industrial syntheses should not be separated by biosynthesis because the first two are "chemical" methods, and are thus linked, compared with the "biosynthesis" part.

I have nominated the chemical article Cgk for deletion. Please feel free to contribute to the discussion at Wikipedia: Hi guys, quick question.

Is this compound square planar, or tetrahedral? Pt is usually square planar, but I understand there are exceptions. I remember seeing a pretty graphical abstract with a crystal structure of a weird compound: Anybody can remember a reference?

I'm thinking it would be interesting to mention at Gold Compounds. I can't seem to find any mention of a crystal structure of sodium naphthalenide and sodium cyclopentadienide.

Are the structures I drew representative? Or can they be depicted better? I'm not sure if you're trying to emphasize some sort of ionic character, so I'll leave it to you.

There remains a misplaced minus charge on the equations at the bottom though. I've found a crystal structure for NaCp: Organometallics , , 16 17 , pp — There is a suggestion to move Blackwater Worldwide to Xe and moving that page to Xe disambiguation I just started this page, tho I don't really know what I'm talking about.

I took the info from just 1 apparently respectable source, but since the book is about free radicals, it may be one-sided. I've also seen suggested that pinoline has antidepressive effects, but those refs seem to be from the 90s - I'd rather see something newer.

The article needs control, infobox, and development from stub to article. Thanks, - Hordaland talk CAT in hopes of providing better guidance regarding the categorization of pharmacology articles.

If available, I have posted an updated draft at WT: CAT , and would appreciate your feedback. I strikes me that it might be more useful to have the Article alerts on this page rather than on the project main page, so I've done an experiment.

What do people think? Does it cause problems? Is it a useless waste of time here? I know I can trust you all to provide feedback!

CHEMS which is where the instructions to the bot are kept. The idea of putting it here was that many people don't actually look at the project main page… I know I don't!

We can also knock out some of the "claims to WikiFame" if that is so desired, but do remember that we only have one feed for all the project: Good idea to put the Alerts here.

I do often look at the current statistics, so would it a good idea to put the Alerts a little bit higher on the page, somewhere in that same section?

I'll give it a shot to indicate what I mean. Jpn 43 ; Inorg. From memory, the prep is. I'd rather have that confirmed before it goes on the encyclopedia though!

There are currently moves afoot to try to revitalise A-class assessments across Wikipedia see here and here. What this means in practice is that we shall have to check that our twelve A-class articles still meet our criteria: We have already had an outside editor come along and downgrade the assessment on sulfuric acid , quite justifiably in my view given the poor referencing of that article.

As we appear to have no choice in the matter, we might as well try glean as much benefit as possible from the process.

The focus should be on article improvement, not simply an "A-class cull"! I also think we should take the forced opportunity of having to concentrate a little more on assessment issues to review our B-class articles to see which could be promoted to A-class with a relatively small amount of effort.

It might be useful to combine this effort with WP: OK, we're up and ready to roll at WP: The "article milestones" feature on the review pages doesn't fully work yet, but that is hardly essential.

Come along and join in the "fun"! Should this substub be changed back to the redirect it was? We agreed on IRC that it's about time we ratified the use of our style guide.

Please can everyone take a look at Wikipedia: Thanks, Walkerma talk I am a article reviewer at articles for creation and recently had this article submitted for review.

I created the article, but am not clear on the appropriate nomenclature. Should this article exist at 2-butanone? Any assistance is appreciated.

Best, TN X Man Is there some guideline as to what should go into the article on the ion vs the article on the element?

I'm trying to figure out if fluorine and fluoride have the appropriate contents; the look more or less like a WP: CFORK to me right now.

What are these homogeneous solutions? I'd like to work this into the articles Anethole and Ouzo effect. More generally, what does E - connote?

There is an ongoing discussion on the Commons about the deletion process for tagged wrong or poor structures. Your input would be welcome on Commons: This is a notice to let you know about Article alerts , a fully-automated subscription-based news delivery system designed to notify WikiProjects and Taskforces when articles are entering Articles for deletion , Requests for comment , Peer review and other workflows full list.

The reports are updated on a daily basis, and provide brief summaries of what happened, with relevant links to discussion or results when possible. A certain degree of customization is available; WikiProjects and Taskforces can choose which workflows to include, have individual reports generated for each workflow, have deletion discussion transcluded on the reports, and so on.

An example of a customized report can be found here. If you are already subscribed to Article Alerts , it is now easier to report bugs and request new features.

We are also in the process of implementing a "news system" , which would let projects know about ongoing discussions on a wikipedia-wide level, and other things of interest.

Your alert page should be located at "Wikipedia: Questions and feedback should be left at Wikipedia talk: Message sent by User: Addbot to all active wiki projects per request, Comments on the message and bot are welcome here.

The classification does not make them "carcinogens". Please comment at Talk: IMHO this category and some of the contained images should be deleted.

This projects needs an article category for GA Class articles, Alprazolam was rated GA class but the rating can't be displayed for the Wikiproject on the talk page.

Will someone create an article stub on zirconium lactate? I created a link at zirconium granuloma. Nice to look at, but not too useful in practice.

We have developed technologies to generate PDF files with interactive 3D chemical structure models see http: We are willing to donate such PDF image files to Wikipedia under the creative commons license i.

Is this something the community is interested in picking up? And a more fundamental question: Can Wikipedia use embedded or linked PDF files for annotations?

It would be nice if section 1. Hgrosser has been modifying many of the physics templates I created to allow incorrect spellings. I've undone these changes and pointed him to this article, but he has continued to modify templates.

I assume that an explicit message in the style guide will deter him from modifying any more templates. As a side note, from his talk page, it seems that he has a tendency to be a bit blunt in his spelling changes.

Articles needing chemical formulas. Feel free to tweak the text, and categories, etc What would people think about moving this page to something like Benzo a pyrene and converting Benzopyrene into a general page about the different benzopyrenes?

Brackets aren't allowed in page names due to technical restrictions, which is why the page can't be at Benzo[a]pyrene.

I should note that the article has been moved to Benzo a pyrene , so if someone wants to help me create an article on benzopyrenes in general, I would be appreciative.

Is the structure in that article correct? Does this structure dimethyl bromonium ion that was removed from the article exist? If not, it might be deleted.

If yes, a nicer version should be uploaded to Commons. I had a look on SciFinder. I've got the crystal structures of a few halonium ions in the pipeline, so I'll add them soon-ish.

Chembox does still support those vars, but I am now in the process to a move the parameters into the appropriate subboxes, and then, when ready, removing that support.

Some help would be appreciated. Chembox now categorises the 'wrong' articles in Category: Chemical infoboxes with misplaced or deprecated parameters which should be empty after some time.

People may also be interested in the discussion above the above mentioned one, Wikipedia talk: Recently, the page Gamma boron discovery controversy has been created.

It would be wonderful if some chemists could comment on the article's talk page whether this is actually an active controversy.

In particular, no professionally published sources on the controversy have been found. The WE guidelines recommend against primary sources.

The recent controversial business with gamma boron arose from the focus on primary sources. I have previously mentioned: Phys Chem alone last year published 45, pages.

It is one of hundreds of chemical journals. It is very, very difficult to select recent work or we invite the following trouble:.

Editors should recommit to WP: To quote from this section of the manual "Wikipedia articles should rely mainly on published reliable secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources.

I've tried to give detailed maybe too detailed guidelines at WP: Another model is the medics' guidelines at WP: I've often asked myself whether we should have a WP: CHEMRS , but I have always felt that it was too difficult to find a single set of guidelines which would satisfy everybody on this project over all the fields that we cover.

Maybe now is the time to prove me wrong! MEDRS have something to say about medical literature. This discussion pops up regularly but never comes to a conclusion, perhaps we need a clear ruling on the WP: My question to this group: This might not be news to many readers, and I apologise for the slight delay in bringing the information here.

Several editors at WP: This is a big task, and it's still not complete. The dataset from which we have been working has now been made public , so we can work towards a more open, wiki-based method of verification.

This will all allow us to " cite our sources " in the normal Wikipedia way, something which has been impossible up until very recently when it comes to CASRNs.

It has taken us over a year to get to this point, and the discussions have not always been friendly even within the "two sides", let alone between them.

As ever with Wikipedia, there is still a lot to do! All the same, we now have another "anchor" to add to our InChI data the two are complementary to make sure that we get the right data for the right compound, and that our users can do so as well.

It would be petty to single out names of those who've helped; in any case, I have no position to do so. Instead, adapting a long-standing tradition of this project, I shall declare a general free beer.

Really good article - I didn't really understand all this talk of CheMoBot and verification until I read it.

You might like to have a look at this request to merge the above three articles as this represents a far reaching precedent if it goes ahead.

As some of you may have noticed and may be concerned that I have been making many minor additions with a few changes to the infoboxes of inorganic compounds.

First off, I want to add that I believe in the rights to free information and free knowledge. I noticed that the properties for the chemicals are so far lacking some readily available information.

I'm trying to cross-reference this information as much as I can to find, for example, the "most accurate" melting point of a substance.

All my edits have been in good faith, as accurate as I can find and to expand knowledge which to me, is what Wikipedia is about. I just wanted to make the community aware of my intentions and hope to hear some suggestions.

Sorry for all the run-on and fragmented sentences - English was never my strong-point. I just ran a few scripts to compare Wikipedia's index to chemical names found in PubMed, see my blog post.

I also created list of missing chemicals and missing synonyms i. I looked for water glass and stubled upon the article Potassium silicate. This article needs help!

My lectures on water glass are long gone, but I know that the production and the chemistry of sodium silicate is nearly identical to that of Potassium silicate.

Would be good if somebody helps. There was an interesting survey recently on how much people trust toxicology-type info on Wikipedia vs other sources.

I wasn't aware that we really handled such information much, but despite that, it appears that we rank quite high! Physchim62, I think you need to get that safety database polished up!

See Andrew Lih's blog on the issue. The article's Implementation and Mechanism sections cover the chemistry of water fluoridation.

Please feel free to leave comments ; instructions for commenters can be found at WP: Hi, I've been browsing the amino acid articles lately, and I noticed the lewis formulae lack a consistent style.

At least for those amino acids that allow it, I think it would be a good idea to implement some basic guidelines, like having all structural formulae horizontally aligned, with the amino group showing down and the carboxyl group showing left.

This seems to be the tentative standard for most amino acids - look at Glutamine for instance if you want to see what I mean.

However there are some which do not yet abide to this rule, like say asparagine. That being said, I find this would be a considerable improvement, and I would gladly take care of it myself, but I lack any knowledge of how to produce lewis formulae save for painstakingly drawing them out with the gimp.

Also for greater consistency the 3D structures might also need to be updated in several cases. I've noticed that User: Jü has been adding some nice PNG semi- skeletal formulae to articles on racemic compounds, mostly drugs.

Jü prefers to show both enantiomers explicitly e. That all sounds very sensible. I just don't think there's a need to routinely draw both, as it takes up a lot of space and doesn't add much.

I asked Jü to participate in this discussion. The Open Notebook Science Challenge is used as a reference for solubility data in the chemboxes for a number of chemicals.

Please take a look at Wikipedia talk: Using Jmol to display molecular models and join in the discussion. Is there a demand for this?

We need to resolve this once for all. Isn't it about time that this WikiProject starts using GA class?

MED has ever reviewed that article. Someone or more than one person at some time must have decided that the article belonged within those Projects' auspices.

Are you suggesting that the people adding those banners might not understand whether the article does actually belong? If so, your suspicion is no different from that of the WP: Such boldness can easily be discussed and reverted if necessary.

The other problem that you seem to be implying is that the assessment might not have been done by "someone from WP: The only qualification required is "simply list yourself at Participants".

Eliminating the GA standard does not address this problem at all. The GA criteria are fairly well described and GA reviews are generally very good.

Of course, mistakes sometimes happen. However the assignment of "Stub", "Start" and "B" is also potentially prone to error. I have two questions.

Am I right with the asumption that both are external and do not require a input from the project. This would make it logical to treat them both the same, or is it the case that FA needs project participation which would make it different to GA.

I thought that this should only be possible in the system Stub, Start A-Class, in the GA and FA system only articles with a full coverage on the subject would be listed as GA or FA and if the chemistry part would be missing a reassessemnt and and a delisting would follow.

I also got the notice once that due to historical reasons The WikiProject member has no defined qualifications to prove a more accurate assessment than that of the GA reviewer.

Indeed the GA reviewer explicitly should be an uninvolved person: In my opinion, this makes the GA review more legitimate than the WikiProject member's assessment.

You haven't shown what information is "destroyed" by including GA in WikiProject banner.

Antiquities laws trump most property rights when it comes to the removal of metals and other objects of value. With all of these rules and limitations, you may be wondering where you can actually use your metal detector lawfully.

In truth, there are still a number of locations open to hobbyists. The key is to find places where people have actually lived, worked, or played.

Some states allow metal detection on sandy beach areas between the water and the dune line. Others require searchers to obtain special permission before gaining access to state parks and bodies of water.

Places like fairgrounds, parks, sport fields, picnic spots, and schoolyards can be very rewarding for metal hunters, as they are very likely to have bits and bobs left behind by the crowds.

Beaches are a treasure trove and regularly yield jewelry, coins, and the like. If you're going treasure hunting, you need a machine that's comfortable for you to use over the long haul.

Look for these features to find the most ergonomically sound metal detector for you:. How much does the metal detector of your choice weigh?

Anything around four pounds will work best. The Garrett Pro Pointer is waterproof up to 10 feet, so if you plan to take it on vacation, there are no worries if a child takes it off the beach and into the shallow part of the sea.

Most metal detectors require batteries and few are rechargeable. Be sure to check your owner's manual for the specific needs of your detector.

A metal object doesn't necessarily have to be magnetic in order to become charged by the electromagnetic field the detector generates.

Before you go treasure hunting, be sure to understand the correct settings and capabilities of your metal detector. Read through the manual and research online, if needed.

Like golf, metal detectors require a proper swing to work well. Swing your detector slowly from side to side, keeping it as close to the ground as possible — but make sure it does not touch the ground.

Wear comfortable clothes that are appropriate for the weather, knee pads to protect your knees when you have to dig, shoes that help you wade through terrain, and gloves for your hands so you don't get them dirty or cut yourself when scooping up soil.

Educate yourself on the local laws regarding metal detecting before you start. That way, you know which areas are permissible and what kind of digging is allowed.

Remember, even public areas may not allow metal detecting if they have landscaping that could be damaged. Metal detection takes time and patience.

It can take up to six months to figure out all the settings on your metal detector and to find the best stomping grounds.

The answer to this question depends largely on the detector's make and model, but in general, the average detector can find larger pieces of metal 12 to 16 inches below the surface.

Deeper searches would require a more powerful device, such as a ground-penetrating radar. While most metal detectors can detect the presence of gold in a general sweep, many discriminators have difficulty tuning out other metal signatures.

Metal detecting seems very straightforward to me. What do the pros know that I don't? For one thing, experienced hobbyists and professionals use several different types of sweeping and search patterns, not just a simple back-and-forth or up-and-down motion.

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A VLF metal detector sends out a ground-penetrating electromagnetic charge that causes any form of metal to become temporarily energized.

A receiver coil detects this new energy and sends a signal to the unit's microprocessor. The most obvious result is a tone generated by a loudspeaker.

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What do others think about these two? Probably a bunch of false positives on the list, but these articles list the solubility in water of these substances as insoluble.

In my opinion, this should be replaced with either the really small solubility rate or the solubility product constant. Elements to have been sent for deletion as pure speculation.

Note that even the chemical properties cannot be predicted, since some theories say that no electrons can be added to the electron shells beyond The synthesis section has no references and appears educational rather than industrial.

Could someone more knowledgeable improve it? Perhaps Smokefoot might be able to dig out Ullmann's?

List of chemical compounds with unusual names has been nominated for deletion. Frankly I don't like that he made the diagrams smaller. Nor do I see a need to insert spaces in chemical names in text.

I can see the need for line wrapping in infoboxes, but even that is suboptimal given that we have Template: I guess he was using a mobile client.

I've moved the discussion here because I'm not the one to unilaterally make this decision. Also I find the tone and the amount of posts on my talk page unhelpful.

You have rolled it back to a version which still contains manually inserted breaks, however at illogical places. Not x,y -dihydroxy-y,z -dimethyl.

And I fixed it such that it is logically coherent. Now in your rollback it looks like written by a chemical illiterate and still has manual wrap in it.

I am mathematician myself, but also had chem classes. The arrangement as edited in my revision facilitates reading.

I have done major proofreading and editing on many articles look at temazepam and discussion , only you can't see it, because I have variable IPA But I can still solder.

My main field was systems and algorithms, systems architect of semiconductor circuits. That kind of electrician. And the illiterate version still contains manually inserted breaks.

The spaces I used give the display algorithm more freedom to adjust as sees fit. If you remove the still present breaks it pumps up the box to huge size.

Maybe there is a reason that CBM and me as mathematicians have problems with your chem box? Seems like the reason is that mathematicians use Unix and the browsers available for it, or firefox.

The problem does not show up on IE6. IE6 seems to recognize the dash, the brackets and square brackets as separator characters for word wrap.

Can't upgrade on my home computer, 64Mb win Not supported by ff3. No money for something better. Did a line wrap experiment on chenodeoxycholic acid.

This displays totally garbled on ff2. You have to care for the least common denominator of browsers out there. Think of other nonPC clients as well.

So you will need to fix that, you can't say BAAH, time to upgrade, thats what I am telling you as a professional.

Hard to work with you, people. You think everybody else is a charlatan. Never came to your mind what you can potentially study until your 60s?

Yes you can be electrician and mathematician at the same time in the 5th decade of professional work and study. You have to count, that I worked since '64, in a radiation counter lab, in factory for electrical motors, in a factory for nautical instruments.

First patent in the 70's. Entered full time industry position ' Participated in first attempts of digital video processing ' Electrical filtering, first large LC filters, with their specific mathematical methods of synthesis See "Cauer, Theorie der linearen Wechselstromschaltungen" now moving focus to digital filters.

Highly mathematical construction problem. First projections of microcoded digital signal processing, but several technology generations away from feasibility.

Integrated solutions hardwired feasible before the generalized programmable approach. Nonlinear optimization as a design tool. Variants of modified Gauss-Newton, Levenberg Marquardt methods, attempts to make it foolproof stable as design tool.

Heavy simulation problems, the upcoming era of register transfer languages to get behavioral and cycle-accurate simulations of digital signal processing.

Building of compilers for such RTL, mixed with gate level blocks. Pseudocode generation, true machine language generation, attempts to push primitives down to microcode.

Microprocessors developing, single chip controllers. Many problems with video speed converters, particularly testability. Much need for mathematical approaches, stuck-at model.

No commercial testers available, helping out with factory automation. Son-do-all solves much of it. Upcoming electronic identification cards, security processors, building of new instruction set architectures for embedded and security and embedded security.

It becomes feasible to pack a PDP11 class processor in a credit card, and he knows your finger print and two-factor authorization, RSA, Diffie-Hellman.

Finally microprocessors have reached the speed for digital video processing, the old ideas from the seventies about programmable and microprogrammed video solutions have punched through the time-wall and become feasible.

They were all infeasible through 25 years. I participate at the fringe of such development and see my old dreams taking on a LIFE of its own.

On the other hand the credit cards with a security processor become feasible and a commodity, they are to go into passports.

Now they will move into secure cell phones, which also pay your bills. A soapbox compresses video into a format for your Ipod. No need for me any more, the problems are solved.

And you ask me in a squawky suspicious voice, I presume? Because I say so one day and different the next day? Sure I lied, what?

Want to give me a job, or just curious? Want my resume and hire me? Or do you want to pull off the same stunt yourself?

Now I am curious. So I propose you stop bickering now, and recognize we have a problem with the display of long iupac, on browsers we have to realistically support.

I propose to allow dash space, bracket space etc etc as iupac elements to facilitate readability and auto wrap. No chance that we all have to upgrade to ff3.

Also consider display behavior on other clients, aim for portable text and the least common denominator. I have a grudge against so many people like you, who are jumping to conclusions immediately and act on a hunch and on a consensus of two, and then they become fidgety and insolent and try to block dissidents.

But first argue the case with me. I propose to squeeze blanks after separators out before searching. The blanks I have inserted for following reasons: The problem occurs if you have "sidebars" enabled on firefox, or in std display mode in IE.

If you use automated search of the iupac name. The "zero width space" is less portable, as it is not ascii character set. Please switch sidebars on in your browser, and observe how the box displays, and other problems.

The you see what I did and why. This are not really style changes. The box really blows up in size on very long names. See screenshots by Carl, above.

Yes that is the problem, and is worse on narrow or variable width display, i. You simply can't read that. This problem shouldn't be solved by attempting to insert breaks manually.

Therea re chembox pages alone. Apart from being more elegant, it's more practical to keep formatting the way they are, and fix the box.

That's just my opinion; does anybody else encounter unreliable names? Discussion at User talk: Is there a wiki standard for this?

I see that icosa is preferred over eicosa, even if Beilstein uses eicosa. Overexcited quick hands please chill out.

You see below that the same issues with display recognition of separator characters is pending for the drugbox for quite some time, without an answer.

So I would call your blocking request for my best efforts to make pages display nice a bit quick and insolent, young editor. Blocking is appropriate for vandalism, not for good faith best efforts.

And you have reverted me, before even asking for reasons. Also I have not seen a response to my part of the discussion. See also here http: Hundreds of articles are affected e.

There is an on-going discussion in the de-WP chemistry project. We got the following e-mail reply from the responsible IT Project Manager:.

So, probably, we should make a request for direct linking to the ESIS database. It seems that there were unknown problems in the past with Wikipedia and ECB de: We are trying to mediate the case and establish a relationship for the future.

The problem with the long name and firefox 2 seems to be fixed: The width of the infobox does not change when I click on "show" to see the chemical name; the table cell grows a horizontal scrollbar instead.

In articles like Violaxanthin , wouldn't it be better to put the wide image in the article text and but a "see text" message in the infobox?

But indeed now the length of the alternate name is the limiting factor, expanding the width of the box. Carl, checked against earlier version and reinserted a beta in beta carotene, which got lost in editing.

Now definitely the alternate name is the limiting factor. The list of the many alternate names is any way separated by manual breaks.

So, how much does it make sense to forbid manual breaks in the names in this list? I hope we don't end up hiding all cells of the drugbox, bringing them up only on a push of a button with a scrollbar.

That "only few users" look at iupac or other "long chemical names" in pidgin is a conjecture. By showing only a window into the name, the scrollbar tool takes on the character of an aid for the blind itself.

Unfortunately an all too popular version of the articles reduces the text body of chem articles to "is toxic, EPA classes, drug schedule, causes dependence and brain rot, if forbidden and bad for the environment and is the result of the pharm industry conspiracy" reflist: Whitespaces inserted after "separator characters" like dash would not change the semantics and therefore not the correctness in fact.

If done appropriately it would look better than the auto wrap on new browsers. I don't talk about inserting spaces behind every separator, but in appropriate places, e.

The main issue is machine readability by search engines and other tools, e. Let me add that the layout problems of chemical names are the same as the layout problems of other high level languages.

Such free layout can be automatically reverted to the original Example statement, for machine processing, by applying lexical processing.

Please address the problem of a list of e. If we hide them all the chembox has no name any more. I would have favored lexical compression before searching with a chems search preprocessor.

Also nothing prevents idiots from tinkering with the names by inserting tetrahydro-fuckto-cuntodole-3,6-prickolate in the mid of the iupac name wherever they want, and I have fixed similar not as bad cases.

Changing the numbers or other items in a plausible way is more insiduous and I have fixed such as well, including misrepresentation of references.

You have to protect this info in some way, violating current policy and excluding Mio people in need of the GED or with a slightly subnormal IQ. I believe the machine searchability is a wild goose chase, you don't even find the eicosa from Beilstein or Chem abstracts, and you don't find long string even if they are in the article.

Standing in the shoes of an idiot it would be more funny to vandalize the hidden info in an insiduous way. Look at the hits: They are false drops.

It turns out that wiki search looks for a hit containing epoxy, methoxy, methylmorphinan, and one. It doesn't see the 4,5a. It also finds names with these components but other interspersed elements, like hydroxy etc.

Look, look, in particular at the highlighted hit list and see "how" and "what" he matched. Your examples were oversimplistic and wiki search does NOT match on the full search string, but on its parsed down components.

The differences between different layouts are explained by this, they are all associative search false drops.

Ok, if thats the consensus after the facts. Lets see if it is well accepted. Do you guys still think my contributions are mostly rants? Then it increases the size of the chembox, as intended.

So it is truncated on the left. Besides, as you say doesn't hyphenate at hyphens, I am not sure if the dash minus sign of ascii is really and truly a hyphen.

Besides also not confident in unicode portability for that matter, if we talk other clients. If I have sidebars on, it copies the "hide" button, but only the first line of the name.

The name wraps around to a second line between pentanoic and acid, as there is a blank. I have to switch sidebars of to get the full name. I think this will recur without sidebars if the non-wrapped name is wider than the display window.

This is an extra problem. I begin to suspect that I have to search if I can tweak some macro in the firefox package to see hyphens as wrap points, like in ie6 and FF3.

Maybe thats scriptable, I have to learn. Well, we have solved the problem this far. I can't easily reproduce it under my settings, but the above questions are about it: What happens if you press 'show', can you copy the whole name and what problems do you encounter with it , and can you access the hide button to collapse everything again back to normal.

Can you copy it then, what happens to the display overall? Show and hide works normal. The problem is only if the box doesn't fit in display width in this case due to sidebar, but I guess also if the string is simply wider than display width.

Not tried Then I could do no normal copy, because I could not get to the left end of the line. Besides I got curious what other people have experienced with firefox.

So I did a Google search Firefox word wrap, and got a huge bunch of forums etc. So this kind of incompatibility with IE has been observed by others in different applications too, and has been fixed in ff3.

Of course tinkering with the Chrome folder is not WP solution, where we want maximum compatibility with everything that is out there without tinkering with your computer.

For smiles it should work if the line wrap recognizes parenthesis etc. There is an interesting character for silent hyphen something like shy, not blushing which you can sprinkle into strings and they wrap there.

Don't know if that is portable. Don't know if FF and other browsers recognize that generally. The chem names I found are always edited with minus sign as the dash, compatible with ascii.

At least If you copy from pubchem. And then FF2 doesn't recognize it but IE does. I guess if you do a copy paste from a string with embedded silent hyphens, they don't get copied, because they are nondisplaying.

But again, as I have seen before with zero width blank characters, on some browsers not set to unicode they display as a grey blocks. So it is also not foolproof.

But with ff2 it gives a correct wrap around with no extra spaces displayed. I think it was character I was opposed to it because of the grey block issue, but maybe it is the lesser evil.

I edit a lot of chemical pages, kinda my hobby. But I want to follow the consensus about style. In general, I have been moving almost all of the "other names" for a compound into the ChemBox, except in cases where is a particularly widely used abbreviation.

So in the case of acetone , I changed this:. If other editors object to this approach or have suggestions, please let me know.

Whatever we decide, let's write it into the style guide. Til the next time consensus shifts. Editors should take a look because I made several changes.

In any case, this Manual of Style is a consensus driven project and my comments are merely suggestions. Agree with Smokefoot on scale, and satisfied with changes to styleguide.

However, some discretion should be applied with regard to routes - if we are talking about a biomolecule, obviously the biosynthesis should take precedence; on the other hand, for a molecule which is not primarily a biomolecule e.

Whichever the case, lab and industrial syntheses should not be separated by biosynthesis because the first two are "chemical" methods, and are thus linked, compared with the "biosynthesis" part.

I have nominated the chemical article Cgk for deletion. Please feel free to contribute to the discussion at Wikipedia: Hi guys, quick question.

Is this compound square planar, or tetrahedral? Pt is usually square planar, but I understand there are exceptions. I remember seeing a pretty graphical abstract with a crystal structure of a weird compound: Anybody can remember a reference?

I'm thinking it would be interesting to mention at Gold Compounds. I can't seem to find any mention of a crystal structure of sodium naphthalenide and sodium cyclopentadienide.

Are the structures I drew representative? Or can they be depicted better? I'm not sure if you're trying to emphasize some sort of ionic character, so I'll leave it to you.

There remains a misplaced minus charge on the equations at the bottom though. I've found a crystal structure for NaCp: Organometallics , , 16 17 , pp —

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